Comments on: Cheap and Green Insulation: Recycled Paper Cellulose

By: Also...

Also... — Wed, 09 Jul 2008 05:18:11 +0000

As for the plastic bags that the paper insulation comes in… Until the manufacturers go green with their packaging as well, one use for them would be to use the plastic in the mix, since plastic itself is an insulator. There’s a video on CNN about a guy who converted a shed into a house, living a minimalistic lifestyle — he had an abundance of plastic bags and used the plastic bags as insulation. Just an idea for the meantime until the insulation packaging goes green.

By: ryanne

ryanne — Tue, 10 Jun 2008 20:04:24 +0000

tbs,
if you were to use something like leaves you would also either soak them or sprinkle them with something like boric acid, which is non-toxic bug repellent. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boric_acid

By: tbs

tbs — Tue, 10 Jun 2008 16:27:10 +0000

All this talk about being green. Anybody think about the potential for bug and insect problems that could arise if you use leaves in your walls ??

By: Randy

Randy — Sat, 07 Jun 2008 18:53:07 +0000

If you are looking for a “green: insulation…my father in law built a huge house insulated with straw. If you seal the insulation it won’t decompose. Actually, his father did the same thing years ago. They had to knock out a wall to build another room. Even though the straw was 20+ years old, it was still golden brown and smelled as fresh as the day they stucko’d it all in. The walls had to be thick enough to incase a bail of straw though (approx 18 inches).

By: Kob

Kob — Thu, 27 Mar 2008 02:48:57 +0000

Hi guys,

Just wanna let you know that I’m doing LCA with some of my friends for a group project at our university and reference you about the plastic bag. =) At least they should use recyclable plastics.

By: ryanne

ryanne — Thu, 28 Feb 2008 15:27:20 +0000

i think cloth would last longer than that plastic stuff and be more sturdier than paper. also, depending on the material, it could very well be biodegraded or used again.

By: jay

jay — Thu, 28 Feb 2008 14:43:17 +0000

That’s a good question. i wonder if the cloth would last over time though. would it decompose and fall apart?

By: Jan / The Faux Press

Jan / The Faux Press — Thu, 28 Feb 2008 09:23:55 +0000

Could you use cloth rather than plastic to seal the insulation in? You could probably get bolts of old fabric pretty cheap. Now, what fabric would have a tight enough weave to be useful?

By: Big Announcement! We’re Moving to the Mountains…Literally at Ryan Is Hungry

Wed, 27 Feb 2008 04:14:27 +0000

[…] moving back across the country to the mountains of Virginia. You might remember our video about recycled paper insulation that we were installing at Jay’s dad’s garage in Virginia…well, that’s the […]

By: Rodrigo

Rodrigo — Fri, 22 Feb 2008 02:34:41 +0000

hello im from chile
we are very interesting in the insulation of recycled paper becouse help to reduce co2 levels too much, ans is a very economical sistem, in fact the economical proyection in my country and we need know how is the price in your country for the machine to instal that aislant… help me please!!!
greettings from chile the last place in the earth!!!!

By: John Leeke

John Leeke — Fri, 18 Jan 2008 16:52:24 +0000

>>Jeeze, Everyone talks about renting an insulation blower like they are on every corner!…<<

Well, all you have to do is buy or rent one, it’s just a phone call away, plus writing the check. But then that’s the problem with the capitalist corporateers who control the building products industry. If you adopt their mindset and play their game by using their products then they will grab as much of your money as they can. Having to buy or even rent a machine is the strategy that keeps even a recycled product like cellulose from being truly “green.” The entire industry is very busy “green washing” everything they make and sell in order to capture the “green” market. The market for green ink and green pigment, and green dye is way up, and none of THAT stuff is “green.”

John (black is the new green) Leeke

By: Michael

Michael — Thu, 17 Jan 2008 22:57:26 +0000

Jeeze, Everyone talks about renting an insulation blower like they are on every corner!….I live in los angeles and can’t find ANYONE that rents them….if anyone does know where he mythical beasts can be rented in Los Angeles I would be eternally grateful!!!

michael

By: ryanne

ryanne — Tue, 04 Dec 2007 17:09:35 +0000

if we really could use old leaves as insulation, i would do it! i guess as long as it doesn’t get wet anything can be used…except you really need to make sure it’s pretty fire retardant, right? dry leaves probably aren’t. but how could you make them? borax?

also, one of my reasons for hand stuffing was because we didn’t have power down there except for a gasoline generator…something i was not excited about.

cheers!
thanks for the great conversation!

By: jay dedman

jay dedman — Tue, 04 Dec 2007 16:37:21 +0000

You guys bring up some good points.
From what I could tell, the plastic wrapping on the insulation would not have prevented water from getting in. It was really flimsy, full of small holes, and broke if you grabbed it. I bet they use plastic wrap just because it’s normal procedure these days. They could wrap it in heavy paper and do just as well.

John, I had no idea you could insulate with old leaves. Makes sense, but would the leaves/seaweed decompose in the walls? If these simple solutions work, then we should defiitely spread it. It’s cheaper and smarter.

By: John Leeke

John Leeke — Tue, 04 Dec 2007 14:30:06 +0000

Of course the gasoline and rubber used to haul the cellulose insulation across the countryside is not so GREEN. If you really want GREEN insulation just rent the blower and run the leaves you rake up off the lawn into your walls. Now THAT’S GREEN.

John (turning GREEN) Leeke
http://www.HistoricHomeWorks.com

P.S. Of course, the blower uses electricity that may or may not be GREEN. So, for authentic GREENness you have to skip the blower, then the hand stuffing method would be soooooooooo GREEN. Just make sure the food you eat to power your muscles is GREEN. (please take this seriously, not sarcastically)

We have found 200 year old houses here on the coast of Maine that had seaweed stuffed into the wall for insulation.
JL

By: Elepski

Elepski — Tue, 04 Dec 2007 13:26:41 +0000

From what i know… soy based plastic is biodegradable… in fact… it may even be edible.. he he he…

By: ryanne

ryanne — Mon, 03 Dec 2007 21:27:51 +0000

i understand that no insulation can get wet, even fiber glass, or it is useless (though fiber glass might be able to dry better and be used?). the plastic bags that cellulose comes in are flimsy and filled with holes, seems like a poor way to protect this stuff from water. yeah, waxed paper, good idea!! or soy based plastic…is that stuff biodegradable? i think in some cases it is…

By: Elepski

Elepski — Mon, 03 Dec 2007 18:43:48 +0000

My house is 30 years old and have recycled cellulose… it is the best. Now on to the rants about plastic… this type of insullation… CAN NOT, CAN NOT, CAN NOT get wet… it will be useless. The minumum that is could be shipped in is a heavy wax coated paper. As for the plastic on the walls… other matarials could be used… but will not offer the barrier to water that plastic dose…. how about soy based plastic

By: ryanne

ryanne — Sun, 02 Dec 2007 19:16:41 +0000

thanks for the comment john!

we decided to stuff it in by hand because we had little to no power down at the building (we also did the electrical wiring that week) and the R-Value didn’t need to be too high since it’s the garage. Next time we’ll definitely be renting the insulation blower!

and i agree, that plastic has got to go.

cheers!

By: John Leeke

John Leeke — Sun, 02 Dec 2007 02:17:40 +0000

Wow. Stuffing it in there by hand you’re installation is going to be very inefficient. You’ll use a lot more insulation and not get as much R-value.

A cellulose blower will grind up the compacted insulation and blow it into the space at a specified rate, say 1.5 lbs. per square foot.

Even with cellulose wear a respirator. That stuff usually has borates and who know what else added for pest and fire control. Borates are usually pretty “green” but you don’t want to breath it.

I agree about the plastic bags.

Is it possible to buy anything these days that is not wrapped in plastic? Some stuff is wrapped two and even three time in plastic. Especially food. Give me a break. I grew up eating raisins that came in a plain cardboard box. Now there’s cardboard AND PLASTIC inside the box. In NYC we got some raisins in the usual plastic and cardboard, then the cardboard box was shrinkwraped in, you guessed it, plastic! I showed it to the owner of the little shop, he lamented and agreed, “not the best,” and then showed me in the back stock room where the raisons were. The came in a big bundle of boxes, guess what, the bundle was wrapped in plastic!!!!!!! (and when the stack the bundles on the shipping pallet, the whole shebang is wrapped in plastic. Five plastic wraps just to get a few raisins for lunch. The petro-chemical industry is going C R A Z Y. I’ve heard there are big flotations of plastic bags out in the middle of ocean, 10 of miles across. Shame.

I’ve though of doing a project this winter of trying to eat for a week or a month, only food that has never been wrapped in plastic. I’m not doing this to be GREEN, I’m doing it to loose weight–I’m sure it’s going to be hard to find anything to eat. Even at the health food store it’s all in plastic.

I quit eating hershey bars when they started wrapping them in PLASTIC.

We really have to “vote” against plastic by not buying stuff wrapped in it.

By the way, in the 1970s and 80s cellulose DID come in paper bags, On our projects we used the paper bags instead of rosin building paper on the exterior walls. Now housing industry uses “house wrap” which is made out of, you guess it again, PLASTIC.

For housewrap we are going back to rosin paper, which is still available. In some of the old historic houses we worked on back in the 1970s that were built 200-300 years ago for housewrap they used, you won’t guess this one,….no you won’t. OK, ok, I’ll tell you, they used birch bark, guess what? After 300 years it’s still serving its purpose. We cut down a birch tree when we needed a little more and split the trunk and branched up for fire wood — now that’s GREEN, but we just called it practical. When we finished the project we planted out a dozen birch trees in a nearby grove. In another hundred years they may need a little more of the birch bark housewrap.

“GREEN” is just the latest marketing buzzword. Have you noticed all the color green that is in advertising these days? I’ve heard that green printer’s ink and green plastic dye is selling like hot cakes. All that green ink can’t be very GREEN.

GREEN, GREEN, GREEN, i’m already sick of it.

John (starving in Maine until the birch trees turn green next spring) Leeke

http://www.HistoricHomeWorks.com